• Skip to main content
  • Skip to primary sidebar
You are here: Home / M to Z / Biblical Contradictions / The Problem of Miracles – John W. Loftus

The Problem of Miracles – John W. Loftus

26th March 2017 by Moon Monkey Leave a Comment

By John W. Loftus 

I can think of at least seven problems with believing in the biblical claims of miracles.

1) We live in a scientific era whereas the claims of biblical miracles come from a prescientific era. New Testament scholar Rudolph Bultmann just calls them “myths” and says:

“The cosmology of the N.T. is essentially mythical in character. The world is viewed as a three-storied structure, with the earth in the center, the heaven above, and the underworld beneath. Heaven is the abode of God and of celestial beings—angels. The underworld is hell, the place of torment. Man is not in control of his life. Evil spirits may take possession of him. Satan may inspire him with evil thoughts. It is simply the cosmology of a pre-scientific age. To modern man . . . the mythical view of the world is obsolete. It is no longer possible for anyone seriously to hold the N.T. view of the world. We no longer believe in the three-storied universe. No one who is old enough to think for himself supposes that God lives in a local heaven. There is no longer any heaven in the traditional sense. The same applies to hell in the sense of a mythical underworld beneath our feet. And if this is so . . . we can no longer look for the return of the Son of Man on the clouds of heaven. It is impossible to use the electric light and the wireless and to avail ourselves of modern medical and surgical discoveries, and at the same time to believe in the N.T. world of spirits and miracles. The same objections apply to the doctrine of the atonement. How can the guilt of one man be expiated by the death of another who is sinless?” [R. Bultmann, in Kerygma & Myth: A Theological Debate, ed. Hans Werner Bartsch (New York: Harper & Row, 1961), pp. 1–7.]

My claim is that in our world miracles like a virgin birth, resurrection, and an ascension into the sky do not happen. What world are YOU living in? If miracles do not happen in our day then they never happened in first century Palestine either. And that’s the end of it.

Jason Pratt made fun of me by saying this is a “category error”:

Remember folks, if televisions and electric light switches didn’t happen in first century Palestine, they couldn’t happen in our day either. And that’s the end of it.

But it’s a category mistake to equate ordinary events with extraordinary ones. It’s a category mistake to equate ontology (i.e., what actually happened) with epistemology (i.e., what we have reason to believe). And it’s a category mistake to equate the results of science with the results of god-explanations which, to date so far, have always been wrong so the theist must continually move the goals posts as science solves the gaps of the past and uncovers new ones.

2) To believe that a miraculous event took place demands a near impossible double burden of proof. What believers must show is that an event is not possible without a supernatural explanation (or at the very least very very very improbable). However, once they do that they must turn right around and claim such an impossible event probably took place anyway. On the one hand they must show said event is improbable, and on the other hand argue said event probably happened!!! Whatever they place in one hand they take away with the other hand.

3) Time itself is a problem. We are separated by 2000-3000 years from the biblical claims of miracles. We cannot go back in time and interview eyewitnesses. To see this read about Lessing’s Broad Ugly Ditch. I admit miracles might have happened in the past. But my claim is that even if they did there is no reason to think they did from a historian’s perspective, which is the only one we have to know what happened in the past. In that sense if the historian does not see miracles in today’s world then he cannot interpret the raw uninterrupted data of the past any other way but from his present perspective.

4) If believers provide a natural explanation for an event it is no longer miraculous, whereas if they don’t do this it’s very difficult to accept such an extraordinary claim. Once someone describes how it’s naturally possible for there to be a virgin birth (if that could be done) at that point there is no longer a miracle. And if they cannot explain how it might have taken place it’s simply unbelievable.

5) Even if we agree with the Jews of Jesus’ day that Yahweh exists and he does miracles this still does very little if anything to lead us in today’s world to think Yahweh raised Jesus from the dead. Because a completely overwhelming number of Jews in Jesus’ day did not think Yahweh did this particular miracle in this particular case. If they were there, and if they knew their Scriptures, and if they believed in Yahweh, and if they believed in miracles, but they didn’t believe God raised Jesus from the dead THEN WHY SHOULD I believe? WHY SHOULD WE?

6) There is the intractable problem of how a God that is an immaterial spirit can actually interact with matter, unless they share something that allows him to act in the material world. If not, he can’t act in our world. If so, then God must at least be partially a material being.

7) Biblical miraculous claims can never (or almost never) be proof of the existence of God, for in order to accept such claim by a writer in the pre-scientific past, and having the double burden of proof mentioned above, a person must already believe in a miracle working God who works these kinds of miracles. But where do we get those particular god beliefs–or Bayesian “priors”–from in the first place? We get those “priors” from our respective cultures. But that’s not how we should justify why we believe. For each different culture provides its own different god “priors.” We must defend our “priors” apart from how we we raised in our respective cultures. This is the adult way to examine our religion once we grow up and want to see whether we were taught correctly by our parents in our cultures. My claim is that this cannot be done. And taking the Outsider Test for Faith is the best and only way to see this.

Filed Under: Biblical Contradictions, Biblical Discrepancies, Exodus, Genesis, Gods/Goddesses, Israel, Moses, Myths, Talmud, The problem with Miracles, Torah

Reader Interactions

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Primary Sidebar

Recent Posts

  • peanuts
  • zd
  • (no title)
  • ASSYRIOLOGY ITS USE AND ABUSE IN OLD TESTAMENT 5*
  • Zoroastrianism, Judaism, and Christianity are all connected 5*INFO

Archives

  • February 2023
  • January 2023
  • December 2021
  • October 2021
  • April 2021
  • March 2021
  • February 2021
  • January 2021
  • December 2020
  • November 2020
  • September 2020
  • August 2020
  • July 2020
  • June 2020
  • May 2020
  • April 2020
  • March 2020
  • February 2020
  • January 2020
  • November 2019
  • March 2019
  • January 2019
  • December 2018
  • November 2018
  • October 2018
  • August 2018
  • March 2018
  • December 2017
  • November 2017
  • October 2017
  • September 2017
  • August 2017
  • July 2017
  • June 2017
  • May 2017
  • April 2017
  • March 2017
  • February 2017
  • January 2017
  • December 2016

Categories

  • 10 Commandments
  • A Categories
    • A ICCEBERG – 5*
    • A ICCEBERG – IS THE WORLD A FRIENDLY PLACE?
    • A ICEBERG – 123 P R I V A T E
    • A ICEBERG – 6 DAY WAR
    • A ICEBERG – ABRAHAM
    • A ICEBERG – ADAM AND EVE
    • A ICEBERG – Adam's Penis Bone/Baculum
    • A ICEBERG – Against Our Better Judgment: l by Alison Weir
    • A ICEBERG – ALISON WEIR
    • A ICEBERG – AMAZON KINDLE BOOKS
    • A ICEBERG – ANCIENT EGYPTIAN GODS AND LAWS
    • A ICEBERG – ANCIENT GREEKS AND MYTH
    • A ICEBERG – ANCIENT LAWS AND THE 10 COMMANDMENT SIMILARITY
    • A ICEBERG – AZUSA STREET AND THE WELSH REVIVAL
    • A ICEBERG – BABYLON AND NINEVEH
    • A ICEBERG – BABYLONIANS AND HEBREWS
    • A ICEBERG – BIBLICAL CONTRADICTIONS
    • A ICEBERG – BILL ZEBUB
    • A ICEBERG – BOOKS TO READ
    • A ICEBERG – BRITISH EMPIRE
    • A ICEBERG – BULLSHIT – BELIEVING BULLSHIT ET AL
    • A ICEBERG – CANAAN/ISRAEL
    • A ICEBERG – CHRISTIAN ZIONISM/JEWISH ZIONISM
    • A ICEBERG – CHRISTIANITY REVEALED
    • A ICEBERG – CIRCUMCISION
    • a iceberg – Code of Hammurabi
    • A ICEBERG – CONSPIRACY THEORIES – TITANIC
    • A ICEBERG – CREATION OF ISRAEL AND THE REFORMATION
    • A ICEBERG – CROMWELL AND THE JEWS
    • A ICEBERG – DISPENSATION ISM
    • A ICEBERG – EDENS SERPENTS AND MYTHS
    • A ICEBERG – EDWARD IRVING
    • A ICEBERG – ELBA – ANCIENT CITY, SYRIA
    • A ICEBERG – EVANGELICALS TO BRING ABOUT THE NT APOCALYPSE
    • A ICEBERG – EVOLUTION
    • A ICEBERG – EXODUS
    • A ICEBERG – FALL OF MAN
    • A ICEBERG – FLOOD MYTHS
    • A ICEBERG – FRENCH REVOLUTION/ZIONISM
    • A ICEBERG – FROM THE EXODUS MYTH FACEBOOK
    • A ICEBERG – GENESIS
    • A ICEBERG – Genesis 1-11 and Its Mesopotamian Problem
    • A ICEBERG – GENESIS-LILITH
    • A ICEBERG – Genetic Roots of the Ashkenazi Jews
    • A ICEBERG – H.L. Mencken
    • A ICEBERG – HAMMURABI HIS LAWS AND HIS GODS
    • a iceberg – Heaven and Hell are not ancient Jewish and Christian ideas
    • A ICEBERG – Hebrew and Babylonian Traditions/Similarities
    • A ICEBERG – HECTOR AVALON
    • A ICEBERG – HOLOCAUST OF HUMANS NOT JUST JEWS
    • A ICEBERG – HOW AND WHY GOD EVOLVED
    • A ICEBERG – HOW THE BIBLE COPIED FROM OLDER STORIES
    • A ICEBERG – HOW USA CAME INTO WW1
    • a iceberg – human genocide
    • A ICEBERG – INVENTION OF THE HEBREW BIBLE
    • A ICEBERG – IS THE TORAH DIVINE
    • A ICEBERG – IS THE WORLD A FRIENDLY PLACE?
    • A ICEBERG – ISRAELI TERRORISM – CREATION OF ISRAEL AND 6 DAY WAR
    • A ICEBERG – JERICHO
    • A ICEBERG – JOHN NELSON DARBY
    • A ICEBERG – LAW
    • A ICEBERG – LIST OF BLOGS AND INFO
    • A ICEBERG – LLOYD GEORGE WW2
    • A ICEBERG – MAN MADE GODS
    • A ICEBERG – MEME
    • A ICEBERG – Michael David Magee
    • A ICEBERG – MISCELLANEOUS
    • A ICEBERG – MONTANISM
    • A ICEBERG – MOSES
    • A ICEBERG – MOSES VS SARGON
    • A ICEBERG – MOUNT SINAI AND THE LUNAR GOD SIN
    • A ICEBERG – MOUNT SINAI AND THE LUNAR GOD SIN
    • A ICEBERG – Nanna/Suen/Sin (god)
    • A ICEBERG – Napoleon and the Jews
    • A ICEBERG – NOAH AND THE FLOOD
    • A ICEBERG – ORIGINAL SIN
    • A ICEBERG – PALESTINE
    • A ICEBERG – PDF
    • A ICEBERG – Persistence of Myth
    • A ICEBERG – PIOUS FRAUD
    • A ICEBERG – Protocols of the Elders of Zion FACT OR FICTION
    • A ICEBERG – RABBINICAL JUDAISM
    • A ICEBERG – RED HEIFER
    • A ICEBERG – RED JOHNSON
    • A ICEBERG – REVIEW
    • A ICEBERG – SABBATH
    • A ICEBERG – SCOFIELD PRE MILL bs
    • A ICEBERG – SCRIBED
    • A ICEBERG – SIN
    • A ICEBERG – SIN DOES NOT EXIST
    • A ICEBERG – Stephen Sizer
    • A ICEBERG – Sumerian Influences on Western Religion
    • A ICEBERG – SUMERIAN LIFE AND BELIEFS
    • A ICEBERG – THE BIBLE IS NOT HISTORY
    • A ICEBERG – THE CHURCH OF TRUTH
    • A ICEBERG – THE CREATION OF GOD
    • A ICEBERG – THE GOD ENKI SUMERIAN
    • A ICEBERG – THE JEWISH PARASITE
    • A ICEBERG – THE MORAL ANIMAL BY ROBERT WRIGHT
    • A ICEBERG – THE PENTECOSTAL-CHARISMATIC MOVEMENT
    • A ICEBERG – UGANDA CHOSEN FOR THE JEWSS
    • A ICEBERG – Ugaritic story of Athtar
    • A ICEBERG – Walter Reinhold Warttig Mattfeld
    • A ICEBERG – Whitney Webb 5*+
    • A ICEBERG – WHY FARMING?
    • A ICEBERG – Why Humans Have No Penis Bone
    • A ICEBERG – WHY THE BIBLE CANNOT BE THE WORD OF GOD
    • A ICEBERG – WOODROW WILSON BRANDIS COL HOUSE SAMUEL UTTERMAYER
    • A ICEBERG – YAHWEH
    • A ICEBERG – ZIONISM AND CREATION OF ISRAEL
    • A ICEBERG -VICTORIAN HORROR STORIES
    • A ICEBERG 5*+
    • A iceberg Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind – Yuval Noah Harari
    • A ICEBERG SUMERIAN DICTIONARY GODS AND DEMONS…..
    • A ICEBERG-SINAI
    • A ICEBERG-Walter Reinhold Warttig Mattfeld
    • A ICEBURG – RECEPTION HISTORY
    • A ICELAND – FROM THE EXODUS MYTH FACEBOOK
    • A ICELAND – VIDEOS
    • A ICELBERG – AGAINST THE GRAIN JAMES SCOTT
    • Abraham
    • Abrahamic Religions
    • Afterlife?
    • AI ICEBERG – BOOKS TO READ
    • Alexander Heidel
    • Allah
    • Animal Sacrifice
    • Animals
    • Anthropomorphic
    • Anunnaki
    • Apocalypticism
    • Ark of the Covenant
    • ASSYRIOLOGY ITS USE AND ABUSE IN OLD TESTAMENT
    • Astrology 
    • Atheistism
    • Author Unknown
    • HUMAN GENOCIDE
  • Ancient Civilizations
    • Animal Sacrifices
    • Human Sarcrifice
  • Authors
    • Baron Paul Henri D'Holbach
    • Bart D. Ehrman
    • Colin Wilson
    • Eustace Mullins
    • Frank Moore Cross
    • G. W. Foote
    • Jason Long
    • John Byrne MD
    • Joseph Campbell
    • Joseph Wheless
    • Joshua J. Mark
    • Karl Marx and Communism
    • M. D. Aletheia
    • Marlene Winell
    • Matt (Blogger)
    • Mike Magee
    • Peter Dudink
    • Prof. Ze'ev Herzog
    • Richard Carrier
    • Richard Dawkins
    • Robert Cooper
    • Robert Green Ingersoll
      • Freethought
    • Saladin
    • Sam Harris
    • Samuel Noah Kramer
    • Scott Atran
    • Valerie Tarico.
    • Vexen Crabtree  
    • Walter Reinhold Warttig Mattfeld y de la Torre
  • B to L Cat
    •  Conspiracy Theory
    • Ashkenazi
    • Babylon
    • Babylonian Legends of the Creation
    • Balfour Declaration
    • Belief in Belief
    • Belief Systems
    • Bible Archaeology
    • Bible Contradictions
    • Bible Inconsistencies
    • Biblical Myths
    • Biblical Nonsense
    • Birth of Civilisation
    • Black Race
    • Blood Sacrifice
    • Bolshevik Revolution
    • Bolshevism
    • Book Form
    • Books to Read
    • Bullshit
    • Canaanite Religion
    • Christianity
    • Christianity-Biggest Lie Ever Told
    • Circumcision
    • Code of Jewish Law is Called "HALACHA" (The Way)
    • Cognitive Dissonance
    • Collapse of Ancient Civilisation
    • Concept of Sin
    • Conspiracy
    • Constellation Legends
    • Contradictions in the Bible
    • Counsel of the Gods
    • Creation
    • Creation Myths
    • Creation of Israel
    • Cure from Religion – Judaism/Christianity/et al
    • David and Solomon – Kings of Israel
    • Did humans invent Gods?
    • Divine Number 12
    • Documentary Hypothesis
    • Does God Exist?
    • Doublethink
    • Egyptian Ancient
    • Elul
    • Empires
    • Epic of Gilgamesh
    • Evil God
    • evilbible.com
    • Evolution
    • Exodus
    • Exodus Did Not Happen
    • Fables
    • Free Will
    • Freemasonry
    • Genesis
    • God
    • God is Imaginary
    • God is Nonexistent
    • Gods of Ancient Egypt
    • Ham (Noah)
    • Hebrew Myths
    • Hermeticism
    • Hide and Seek God
    • Historical Deception
    • Historical Revisionism
    • History
    • History's Greatest Lies
    • Hitler
    • Hittite
    • Holocaust
    • Human Sacrifice
    • ICEBERG – Walter Reinhold Warttig Mattfeld
    • Iceberg – Zionism
    • ICEBERG – ZIONSIM
    • Illusion/Reality
    • In Gods We Trust
    • infidels.org
    • Israeli-Palestinian Conflict
    • Janus Parallelism
    • Jehovah
    • Jesus
    • Jewish Bullshit
    • Jewish law
    • Jews
    • Joshua
    • Judaism/Christianity/Islam
    • Judeo-Christian
    • Judeo/Christian god does not exist
    • Judiasm
    • Khazars
    • King David
    • King Saul
    • King Solomon
    • KJV
    • Kuzari Argument
    • Law
    • Laws of the Moral and Physical World
    • Leaving Religion
    • Link to Webpage
    • List of Books for Atheists/Agnostics/Free-Thinkers
    • Mass Revelation (Sinai, Fatima et al)
    • Pious Fraud and Lies
    • Racism
    • Sephardi
    • Solomon's Temple and its Cost
  • DESERT FABLE
  • M to Z
    • Bible Myths
    • Bible Parallels in Other Religions
    • Biblical Contradictions
    • Biblical Discrepancies
    • Books and Articles pdf
    • Breaking the Spell of Religion
    • Code of Law by Hammurabi
    • Colonel House
    • Creation Myths
    • Cyrus Scofield
    • El
    • Eustace Mullins
    • Evil
    • Exodus
    • Genesis
    • Gods/Goddesses
    • Hammurabi's Code and the Law of Moses
    • Israel
    • Israel
    • Man invented gods
    • Man invented religion
    • Memes
    • Mesopotamia
    • Mind Virus
    • Miscellaneous
    • Molech
    • Monotheism
    • Morality
    • Moses
    • Moses/Hitler
    • Myth of Sin
    • Myth of the Ten Lost Tribes
    • Myths
    • Nephilim
    • No Gods
    • No pork we're Jewish
    • Noah Flood
    • Noahide Laws
    • NWO
    • Old Testament
    • Old Testament/Torah/Tanach
    • Original Sin
    • Palestine
    • Parasites
    • Passover
    • Pdf
    • PDF articles
    • PDF Books
    • Persia
    • Personality Flaws Hide Behind Religion
    • Philosophy
    • Pictures (pic)
    • Plagiarise
    • Plato
    • Poetry and Verse
    • Psychology
    • Psychosis and Fanaticism
    • Pyramids
    • Quotations
    • Racism
    • Red Johnson
    • Red's anti-religious Rants
    • Red's Muse
    • Religion
    • Religion and Climate
    • Religion Exposed
    • Religion is a Man-made concept
    • Religion is used as an emotional hook to control
    • Religion Without God
    • Religious Lies
    • Religious Lies
    • Religious Trauma
    • Sabbath Origins
    • Samuel Untermyer
    • Satan/Devil/Old Nick Myth
    • Science and Morality
    • Science and Religion
    • Sea Peoples
    • Sicarii, or Dagger-men
    • Sin
    • Sinai
    • Sir Francis Bacon
    • Skepticism
    • Sky God(s)
    • Starred *
    • Storytelling and Fairy Tales
    • Sumerians
    • Summaries
    • Sun and Moon worship
    • Supernatural nonsense
    • Talmud
    • Terrorism
    • TGP
    • The "church" of Truth
    • The Bible Was Influenced By Other Religions
    • The Biggest Lie Ever Told
    • The Body of God
    • The Church of Truth
    • The First World War 1914-1918
    • The Foundations of Western Civilization
    • The Gilgamesh Epic
    • The God Hypothesis
    • The Impossible Voyage of Noah's Ark
    • The Jewish State/Israel
    • The Nonsense of Noah
    • The Philosophy of Horror
    • The Problem of Evil
    • The problem with Miracles
    • The Religion Virus
    • The Second World War – (1939-1945)
    • Theological Terrorism
    • There is no god
    • Timeline
    • Torah
      • The OT fabrication that the Israelite's were slaves in Egypt.
    • Torah – Biggest Lie Ever Told
    • Torah is Ahistorical
    • Ugarit
    • Videos
    • Violence/Bible
    • War
    • Western Civilisations
    • Western Philosophy
    • White Race
    • Why do Jews circumcise on the 8th day?
    • William Shakespeare
    • Winston Churchill
    • Wizard of Oz
    • Woodrow Wilson
    • Yahweh
    • Yahweh
    • YouTube
    • Zeitgeist
    • Zionism
    • Zootheism
    • Zoroaster
    • Zoroastrianism

© 2023 &middot From The Exodus To The Ridiculous